France 0 – 1 Scotland (NOOOOOO!!!!!!!)

Totally disagree.
France may have dominated the game. But they didnt have what it takes to get the ball in the net. Scotlands Defence was superb.
After all, they also beat France at Hampden Park.
Lightining doesn’t strike twice.

Stu, your post does not disagree with Laurie. She said:

“a complete and total breakdown in the entire team’s ability to cross the ball even remotely towards anyone who could put it in the net. And one major defensive lapse. Given the way the game went, we should have seen 3-1 or so.”

There’s nothing contradictory with what you said.

France is playing like Arsenal of last season–it’s a continuing problem up front that Domenech has failed to resolve.

The goal was a superb, unheralded strike that few keepers could’ve stopped.

Oh, and a team that parks 10 men in front of goal and manages to nick 1 goal for themselves while the other team is killing itself actually creating plays is hardly an example of great football. It’s a tragedy for the international game that more and more, it’s boring defensive teams like Scotland win out against creative, attacking teams. At the 2004 Euro it was this type of team that won, Greece. Looks like it’ll be the same next year.

sandrahn,

Scotland used tactics in which they thought would be best to create a game in which they would get something out of. Those tactics they used got them the score they deserved. If they didn’t use the approiate tactics, would they be at the top of the table which the two world cup finalists are in?

Stu, yes, you’re telling me the obvious — that’s the way the game is going and it’s not good for football. It’s why so many fans have soured on the international game and prefer club football. It’s made international football boring — it’s why last year’s wc was so disappointing to longtime observers of the sport.

Just wanted to give you these stats:

Corners:
France 16
Scotland 3

Goal Attempts:
France 16
Scotland 4

On Target:
France 4
Scotland 2

Also, here’s an excellent analysis from a Scotsman:

“Yesterday and on Saturday France looked as if they were a throwback to the WC Finals last summer in the group stage. Remember how bad they looked? Makelele and Vieira played very deep and Zidane and Henry were isolated. Once they reached the knock out stage Vieira pushed forward more, Zidane dropped a bit deeper and things began to click. On Saturday it looked like the same problem except that a draw was a good result so it wasn’t considered a problem. Fast forward to Wednesday and although France enjoyed more possession Vieira and Makelele again played deep together – the only time I can remember Vieira in the Scots’ penalty box was at set pieces. I think the fact that he went off with 20 minutes to go only confirmed that he is not fully fit. There was very little urgency about France’s play – Ribery carried the greatest threat by far – and I was left thinking that France would have been ok with a draw. It was McFadden’s goal that screwed things up. The keeper was caught napping but if Ronaldinho or Henry had pulled that ball down and struck it like McFadden we would have been falling all over ourselves about how brilliant the strike was. France clearly did not learn a lesson from last fall when they lost at Hampden. Before skill takes over you have to match your opponent physically and mentally. I was totally shocked out how easily Scotland contained France. With the exception of France’s flurry at the start of the second half there was little to worry about.”

Good round-up of French reaction:

L’Equipe: “It is not impossible to qualify, but the position in the group of Les Bleus is nevertheless worrying. [The defeat] was a terrible disappointment that nothing really enabled us to foresee.”

Liberation, French daily: “The Euro championships are still a long way away for France.”

Lillian Thuram, France defender: “Our first half display was not one of a team desperate to win. It is a disaster, a very bad result. Whether we like it or not, it will be complicated to qualify.”

Le Monde, French daily: “From now on Raymond Domenech’s players will have to start again. Those who were looking set to practically assure their qualification for the Euro championships from this Wednesday onwards must avoid any more slip-ups in their last three matches.”

Louis Laffitte, football journalist: “France are awful when they have the ball and when they have to take the game to the opposition.”

Edouard Orozco, football journalist: “The lesson of Glasgow [when France also lost 1-0] had not been learnt. However, this painful defeat was not inescapable.”

L’Equipe: “A French rugby team beaten by a big football nation, a French football team beaten by a rugby nation, Les Bleus of both shaped balls are doing everything the wrong way round at the moment.”

Its time to wake up and realise scotland are now a credible team this is our day!!!! yeah we played to win we wanted it we know how to irrritate the french we did it at hampden last year we won then and we won again!!!we are the only team in the group to beat france and to take 6 points from them is amazing!!! is it luck????? nope its sheer genius you dont beat les blues twice in one campaign!!!! you should worry because maybe france may not qualify……….. come on scotland faddy ye legend!!!!!

krys, we know France may not qualify, everyone in France who follows football and everyone outside who supports football knows very well qualification will be very difficult now, just read the French press quotes I posted on this thread. We don’t need you to tell us what we already know.

i should have mentioned that I’m Scottish and our what we have done is totally icredible im still on a high from it. credit where credit is due

I can’t possibly accept that line of reasoning. It was a French team that beat itself, not the other way around. The Scots are now regarding themselves as a footballing nation after a 1-0 win in which they showed none of the virtues of a footballing nation. There was no offense, there was one sublime strike from 35 yards away. The defense consisted of putting the entire population of Scotland in Holyroodhouse.

I apologize that France plays something that is enjoyable to watch. I can only pray that someday they will pack into the box and withstand offensive onslaughts.

L’Americain, are you disagreeing with me, krys or one of the commentaries I posted? I basically agree with you — “I apologize that France plays something that is enjoyable to watch” – exactly! Scotland parked the bus in front of goal and created next to nothing except a wonder strike. And I’m supposed to love this type of football? Yes, Scotland did achieve something remarkable — something no other team has ever done — beat France twice, once in Paris. But it was a case of France “beating themselves”, exactly. They could’ve won against Italy on Saturday and yesterday in Paris.

But unfortunately Scotland’s way is how teams are winning now (remember Greece in Euro 04) in international football. France needs to get back on track and do what they were doing in the latter stages of the wc last year, that approach worked and still did not sacrifice (entirely) their style of play.

I agree wholeheartedly with you. I’d much rather support a team with scruples than with teams that play base soccer.

There is a good article on L’équipe about the changes in offense and strategy:

http://www.lequipe.fr/Football/RETRO_2006_FRANCE_SYSTEME.html

click on the avant, pendant and aprés links.

Excellent link, l’Americain!

When can we finally decide to get rid of Domenech? There is obviously a lack of urgency and the only thing he’s been good for lately is saying ridiculous things.
Anelka is highly over-rated, too.
It’s so frustrating to watch our bleus be so beautiful, but so ineffectual. alas.

Dont be so hard on yourself guys, You’re still in a good position. I’m a Ukraine fan and I’m totally devastated. After a pretty successful world cup I was really hoping to qulify for Euro. We outplayed Italy and we still fuckin lost. And the game against Georgia: They fuckin tied us in the 90th minute. I know its the group of death but still we were cursed with all the ridiculous outcomes. Scotland doing well was what I was worried about too. We play them next and we beat them in the first game. So I guess we’ll be playing the role of spoiler for either you guys or scotland.

Sandrahn & L’americain. Look scotland know we are small fish in a big pond against france and italy who would want to be in group B the so called group of death(it hasnt been called that now in a long time) we got an advantage an we took it maybe france should have capitalised better with its chances. Never underestimate scotland we are coming back in fine form and for the record i would ratgher have france qualify than italy.

Oh and to L’americain who said “The Scots are now regarding themselves as a footballing nation after a 1-0 win in which they showed none of the virtues of a footballing nation” I have this to say Scotland 1 France Nil that was the score @ Hampden & france 0 Scotland 1(that was the score in france!!!!!!!) If we are now not a credible football nation why have france lost twice to us??????????????????????

In 1992 Berti Volgts set out a Scotland team to ‘play’ France and got mauled 5-0, this time Alex McLeish got his tactics 100% spot on and paired with a monumental performance from the entire team he secured a ‘deserved’ victory.

Even diddy nations like Scotland come up against sides who defend for their lives – it’s all part of the game but you still have to work for it, Craig Gordon made some superb saves, there was always someone covering when Scotland made a mistake … we even lost our most influential player after only 25 mintes and still got the job done – Again! it’s not like it’s not happened before!

France will still qualify, they only have to win their last three matches … and none of them are against Scotland!

Oh! and while I’m on here – shame on L’Equipe for suggesting Scotland is a rugby nation. Do they not know their football history?

Here’s me talking about not knowing footballing history and I’d got the date of the 5-0 game wrong – it was 2002 not 1992, Sorry!

A game in which David Trezeguet famously goaded Gary Caldwell about the scorline , I have to say the look on David’s face the other night when McFadden scored was priceless – payback complete!

David Trezeguet crying is now the wallpaper on my desktop.

And Thierry Henry his quote when we beat france in scotland year was “we will see what happens when you come to france” hilarious when ya think about it he wasnt allowed to play and even better is he now has to eat his own words

Why does all this sound familiar? If I remember correctly,France lost to Scotland in exactly the same manner last year. I can’t believe I’m saying this; but clearly the Scots are giving the French a run for all their skill.

I think an American sports adage can go quite a far distance here.

“Act like you’ve been there before.”

Props to Scotland for two games well played. Your keeper shone, and McFadden’s strike was superb.

To my fellow les Bleus fans: no, I am not a fan of 9-men-behind-the-ball either, but the reality is that as long as we are a good team, teams will play this way against us, and it won’t do any good to complain about it a la Arsenal (sorry, Sandra). Unlike many, I actually like Domenech (not like, exactly, though I don’t think he’s stupid and I find him rather entertaining), but it was a mistake to set out to play the draw against Italy. France *has* to figure out how to deal with the stacked defense, defend against dead-ball situations, win the ball in the air, find greater efficiency in attack, get someone who can threaten long-range, etc etc. These problems are not new, and the astrologer has to come up with a better line than “we talked about this, the players know how to deal with it, I can’t take it farther than that” [as he answered re: the dead ball].

To lose the same way to the same team twice in succession is not a fluke, not anymore than football normally works. The sooner everyone realizes this, the better.

glatisant, I am not in disagreement with you in the least, everything you say is what I’ve been saying for the last week on other blogs and to friends — what Scotland did was prety remarkable — win in Paris, only Russia has done it before. I have likened France very often to Arsenal and against Scotland, as the game wore on, it was just like several games from last season’s Arsenal, and I couldn’t continue watching, because I knew what the result would be. I actually was very nervous about this game because after watching Domenech’s tactics at the San Siro, I thought it was very possible the Scots–who’d just come off a game against Lithuania where they scored 3 goals–might surprise everyone, as they had done last year. I was more confident of a draw at the San Siro than a win in Paris.

The strike by McFadden was brilliant, the kind of goal I like to watch over and over again. What I find frustrating is Domenech’s comment after the game “I don’t know what more we could’ve done.” That’s not very encouraging, there’s a lot he could’ve done. The link provided by l’Americain shows the formations used by France pre-wc, during the wc and post-wc and Domenech did not put out a formation that in the past has worked well for France.

France paid for a toothless formation and attack, we’ve seen this happen before, as you say. That does not, however, make me terribly inspired by teams that win international games by putting 10 men behind the ball.

I can’t say I agree with what is being said here. Within Scotland I am a Rangers fan. Every week I watch my team play against 10 defenders but I don’t moan about it. That’s what happens in football. I would rather Scotland did that than put out an attacking line up that would be pulled apart and lose 3 or 4 goals.

You were the home team, we would have settled for a draw, therefore it was your duty to come and attack. You were as you say toothless and we took advantage. That is not wrong. I don’t watch a lot of French football but when Lyon play the team at the bottom of the league or lower league opposition I very much doubt the opposing team attempts to play flowing football, in fact I imagine they defend for their lives for 90 mins. Usually the superior team will have enough to break this down and win. France didn’t do this and so did not deserve to win. I’m not saying Scotland deserved to win either but we would have been happy with a draw. The win was a welcome bonus.

I don’t hear anyone criticising Italy who employ very defensive tactics in practically every game, especially away from home. The most important thing in football is not to loose, Scotland have found out how to that after a long spell in the wilderness and we are enjoying it while it lasts.

Ask yourself this:If you can’t beat Scotland at home do you deserve to be at euros contesting an international trophy? Only one answer really.

If Scotland beat France home and away and somehow finish in the top two of this group I would say we deserve it.

To be honest I’m a bit sick of the arrogant attitude shown by France. They feel because they have superior players they will win. I’m sorry but there’s far more to football than basic skills. It’s about passion and pride to pull on the shirt of your country and how proud or disappointed you can make a nation. Something Scotland understands very well but France simply does not. Probably something to do with the fact the many of France’s players are not actually from France. I may be wrong but someone from Senegal is not as likely to show the same passion playing for France as a true Frenchman.

How many times is this going to be said? Players who play on the French national team are FRENCH. It doesn’t matter if they may have been born in other countries. They have spent years of their lives in France. Please, France haters, stop playing the same card over and over!

You know what really, really pisses me off?

On the rare, yes RARE occasions when France actually loses a game, there is always some ignoramus around who, rather than stating the factual, i.e., “France lost because their crosses sucked,” must instead say something completely idiotic and offenseive like, “Probably something to do with the fact the many of France’s players are not actually from France.”

Because (completely ignoring the fact that the majority of France players were born in France ) heaven knows that players with over 100 caps, like Patrick Vieira and Lilian Thuram, who have both been World Cup WINNERS, (do you have any of those, Dave?) yes, for FRANCE, couldn’t possibly care about playing for the country.

Sandra:

Sorry for responding so late——I hope I haven’t missed you. Thanks for getting where I was coming from (and for ignoring the crack about Arsenal, whom I actually enjoy watching ).
I guess what I meant is that the debate between beauty and efficiency has always been there, and is always going to be there. Negativity is always easier to achieve than creativity, c’est la vie. The great teams are the ones who can overcome the former without abandoning the latter. As a France fan, I expect nothing less from them. If they win, it validates their greatness. If not, it means they are not great enough, but then there is no shame in the failure.

Oh dear, Domenech said that? Well, his players have always been the ones to take the lead, which works sometimes (when you have the right players doing it) and sometimes doesn’t. I do take some measure of relief from the fact that we’ve been in this situation before (see 2005), so hopefully they have some sense of what needs to be done, even if their trainer doesn’t! Agree also on the 4-5-1——every notable French side I can remember has been built from the midfield (save perhaps for the early ninties one with Papin, Ginola, and Cantona).

Dave:

“If Scotland beat France home and away and somehow finish in the top two of this group I would say we deserve it.”
——————————-
And I would agree with you. In fact, I don’t think any of the France supporters here disagree with you on that account. I’m expecting more from my team, too, than losing to Scotland back to back.

“It’s about passion and pride to pull on the shirt of your country and how proud or disappointed you can make a nation. Something Scotland understands very well but France simply does not. Probably something to do with the fact the many of France’s players are not actually from France. I may be wrong but someone from Senegal is not as likely to show the same passion playing for France as a true Frenchman.”
——————————-
The aforementioned Senegalese player just played two games in five days for his country with an injured hamstring, and he was one of their best players during the Italy game.
Come back and tell us when you have done something similar, for any cause greater than your own.

It’s nice to know that you apparently think yourself the arbiter as to who counts as a “true” Frenchman. Too bad the French constitution disagrees with you.

I had never actually read the French constitution and have just googled it. I see the part about overseas territories if that is what you where referring to.

Point taken these guys have performed in the past. It was only a suggestion and I did not intend to offend anyone. If I did I apologise.

Our rugby team has a few players born in southern hemisphere countries who often been considered lacking in passion so I thought I would suggest it here.

For what it’s worth I think France should drop either Makelele or Viera and play a more attacking formation. These two players in my opinion are too similar and cannot control a game and attack like Zidane used to(not than many players can) but surely you must have a decent young attacking midfielder that could spark your team on.

Not too sure about your coach, I mean someone who uses the excuse “the ball boy didn’t return the ball quick enough” surely has no place in international football.

Apology accepted.
If motivation seems to be a problem amongst certain of your players, it would seem to me that attributing it to their origins is, at the very least, counterproductive. Why should they kill themselves for the group if their difference is the thing people take note of, not who they are *as part of the team*? You can only care enough when you feel like you belong.

re: Domenech
For someone so reviled throughout most of his career as coach of les Bleus (I don’t think you could find anyone in France who was supporting him by the start of the World Cup last year), he’s done pretty well for himself, I think, though he may have outlived his usefulness at this point. Being a lightning rod has its good points, but there comes a time when it becomes too much of a distraction for the rest of the team.