France Foto: Did Anybody Catch This?

Well, for one, it’s not like Abidal played dirty or made a shameless tackle. He made a silly mistake, but not a malicious act in any way.

Plus, Canna’s expression doesn’t convey stern diapproval or sympathy, more a cocky, smug sort of thing. I guess it’s debatable now.

Still want Spain to win.

Here we go. From the desk of the self-rigtheous, Italians are arrogant talk. I hope Spain takes them down! Blah, blah, blah.

Doume, while I don not condone what Italians did you must understand that it’s Domenech and the classless comments that came from his mouth as well as unsubstantiated comments that came from the mouths of players following 2006. Even French soccer mags were clear on this front. Forgive me, but I read both French and Italian papers but it was the French players doing all the yapping. There was a lot of racism and prejudice hurled towards Italians during 2006 and two wrongs don’t make a right. What did they expect? Get real.

If Italians are arrogant what does that make Germans, French and British? Again, get real.

Michel is right: get over it. Besides context is king. Who knows why and how it was done. I would not be surprised if he did so to encourage him. Sorta like what Buffon did to his friend Zidane in 2006. Canna IS class so I wouldn’t put it past him. So I caution people to refrain from engaging in “see? Italians are this and that.” Populist bull shit.

People who live in glass houses shouldn’t hurl stones.

Posted from  Canada

Just because there are classless Italian supporters that post negative comments on this blog does not mean that all Italians and their supporters sink to that level. I find it funny however, the sudden interest the Azzuri fans have with the France blog. The more traffic the merrier, however where were you pre Euro and during the qualifications? It seems the only time we see you is after a defeat. I wonder how many France fans go to the Italy page to bash and talk trash (I know one of you will probably say the French have nothing to talk trash about because they lost but that is not exactly what I’m saying)? Don’t come in here with this holier than though attitude and not expect to get called on it.

Posted from  United States

delete my posts? thanks bia…anyway, Jean-Michel, i agree with your last post

He’s really telling him:

“I was seeing a therapist myself about a year ago, … I had some issues.”

It’s an endearing trait to kick someone in the balls when they’re down.

Do you think Fabio would’ve given thumbs up had CHABAL was sent-off the field?

Laurie & the rest… what did I tell you before on wrong assumptions? To me, that picture speaks entirely different.

Look at the other players on the Italian bench (Borriello and Ambrosini). They’re looking directly at Abidal. Look at Abidal, he is looking directly at the Italian bench. To me, that says Abidal attracted their attention somehow i.e. must have been talking to them right before that picture was taken.

Here’s my hypothetical guess: Abidal was bitching and moaning about how the Italians are always divers, cheaters etc. etc. and how his red card was so undeserved and how Toni dived etc. etc. (yawn) that Cannavaro just gave him the “thumbs up” sign in lieu of saying “Yeah good job buddy. Just keep walking”.

The flaw in this argument? Pure hypothesis. Just like the opposite argument that says “Whoa, that Cannavaro’s just an arrogant jackass”. Point is: we don’t know. We don’t have a video of the entire thing and no context, we just have one snapshot. The only thing we do know is that until it was brought into question by Laurie’s picture, Cannavaro has indeed always been a class act. That’s good enough for me.

So for the love of God, let’s stop assuming stuff and misconstruing pictures when the information is lacking, shall we?

stumbled on this and would just like to say, cannavaro did the exact same gesture to his teammate panucci a few days before this game as panucci was leaving the training ground due to a suspected injury. it’s probably a ‘keep your spirits up’ thing and you’re clearly reading too much into it.

Posted from  Japan

I agree that we should not jump to conclusions based on this one photo. In that photo, Cannavaro could have been gesturing to any of his team-mates, it’s impossible to know for sure. In the 2006 World Cup final, the Italian team seemed to be fairly respectful to the French players, helping them up after tackles, laughing with them, etc. Tuesday’s match appeared to be the same, there was a lot of respect and friendliness shown between players (as seen in the halls before the players walked onto the pitch). Upon Ribéry’s injury, Pirlo, Gattuso, and Zambrotta were pretty concerned for him. Finally, at the end of the match, it was nice to see Grosso comforting Benzema, Buffon hugging Henry, etc. So, I think the members of the Italian team have a lot of respect for the French team. For some of their supporters, though, it is a different story…

Posted from  United States

i always hate italy. seriously,spain must beat them hard!

Posted from  Australia

As others have said, the picture above says nothing since we do not have the context of what is going on. Speaking of class, after the match Domenech blames the officials for losing: “We lost a player, Franck Ribéry, after ten minutes to injury, then they had a penalty and we had a man sent off. That was a turning point. The referee gave the match to the Italians. In one game, it is impossible to have so much go against your team.” Sure, officiating has decided games in this tournament, but the Italy-France game was not one of them. The referee had no choice but to send the French defender off because he was the last defender, and if you commit a fould as the last defender it is an automatic red card. It may be a bad rule, but it is the rule right now. Regardless, during the game both side had their moments of mutual respect and disrespect. When Italy had a man down, France didn’t play the ball out but came down the Italian end, and Pirlo then committed the foul in which he was booked. It seems that since the 2006 World Cup, France, or at least its fans, have had a personal grudge against Italy.

Posted from  Canada

I agree with those who say not too much should be made of the photo. I can’t get too upset about it. Canna’s not a meanspirited guy. He may be telling Abidal that he just let his team down and, sorry, he was right.

I also agree that between the France and Italian players there’s a lot of respect and in some cases real friendship — several have played together in the same clubs for years after all. The animosity does not come from the players, it is far more present among the supporters of both sides.

Something I have yet to see mentioned about the game on Tuesday: maybe it’s just me but I thought I heard a HUGE amount of whistling and jeering of the Marseillaise while there was no such boorish behavior during the Italian national anthem.

Posted from  United States

Spain hasn’t beaten Italy in a competitive match for 88 YEARS! Spain always implode, they flatter to deceive (and I say this as someone who loves Spain!). Every tournament I hope I’m wrong and say “maybe this time, maybe this time, they’ll finally learn to put away all the regional rivalries within the squad, get some steel and go all the way.” But it’s always the same with them. World class players, amazing football, but perpetual bottlers.

Posted from  United States

@ Frank:
Well, the high frequency of very decisive games between France and Italy doesn’t help settle the mood between the fans. It’s obvious there’s going to be some animosity towards the team that eliminated you twice in a row. First it was France in 98 and 2000, now it’s Italy in 2006/2008. How can you except them to be friendly with each other?

I tend to hate the Italian team for these reasons, but I’m not going to boo their national anthem or say all Italians are cheaters. OK I say that sometimes! but it’s tongue-in-cheek humour
Not hating the team that made your heart break apart twice in a row is Dalaï-Lama like. Maybe that’s why Coupet was reading that book, he had anticipated it. In all honesty, I could excuse them, because they’re just doing their job, but I find it’s part of the fun of the sport to have some friendly animosity with other teams. Just like I have a friend who’s fan of Marseille and we like to tease each other.

I understand those that whistle anthems, those that go here to insult us, or even those that insult the coach or the players. We all know where their hate comes from, but they should learn to have some respect.

This picture looks fishy, but let’s give him the benefit of the doubt. We have broken hearts right now but it’s not a reason to express it with gratuitous hate on the first occasion given to us. Wouldn’t be any classier than what it seems he did.

Posted from  France

Frank, the grudge and animosity goes both ways equally, I don’t thing you can point only to France fans. We get insults here all the time. And there are lots of Americans and Brits who may not even care about Italy but suddenly become Italy supporters (and the Americans know CRAP about football) because they play against France. These are people with an irrational hatred of France, they’re totally xenophobic against the French and know absolutely NOTHING about the country or its people, its history, its football. We regularly get on this site nazi-like idiots spouting race theories about the French national team, something Italy is not subjected to.

Posted from  United States

The picture doesn’t bother me. Maybe Cannavaro meant to be nice, maybe he was caught at a bad angle and was really gesturing at one of his teammates on the field, maybe he was taunting Abidal. Who knows.
If the situation had been reversed, and it had been, say, Thuram taunting an Italian, yes, I’d feel embarrassed.
If it had been Domenech, I’d probably crack up. (Actually, if Cannavaro did this to Domenech, I’d probably crack up too, even as a France supporter.)
Since I don’t know much about Cannavaro as a character, I’m not going to bother deciding between either lenience or outrage. As for how this reflects on his team, since I’m not inclined to like them in any case, why should this picture matter at all?
It matters much more to me that France lost, and lost badly, than anything Cannavaro does on the sidelines.

It seems that since the 2006 World Cup, France, or at least its fans, have had a personal grudge against Italy.
If France fans have had a personal grudge against Italy and yet have refrained from booing their anthem, while Italy fans, who don’t hold a grudge, boo La Marseillaise and throw racial epithets, what does this say about you?

Here in Canada I’ve grown up with many Italians, and never have I ever
had a personal grudge as regards to where they come from! As the matter of fact I still regard Fachetti as one of the greatest Midfielders who ever played the game. However the more of a fan I’ve become of the Les Bleus since the Tresor era, the more hatered and anger I’ve seen coming from the Azzuri fans, always taunting when they are victorious, even showing up to the French lounge where we watch the matches with their friends just to be total KNOBS! I mean they have the whole part of College st (little Italy) and a good portion of St.Clair which is theirs, not to mention the entire suburb of Woodbridge, meanwhile the French have absolutely no community here in Toronto, no Arrondismont that you could call little France.
These are the types of Italians we have here! Mind you the rivalry of Italians and Portugese is even nastier and more personal in Toronto.
When their team wins they all have their flags and the streets I mentioned gets closed off with proper Police supervision, and you forget you’re living in Toronto, Canada. So the Italian national fervor for many of them whom don’t even know how put a proper sentence together in Italian, comes alive every two years! Hey be happy but lets call it the way it is and don’t throw PASTA SAUCE at us French supporters.

Foreverzidane, I have the same sort of experience here in Brooklyn–I live very close to an Italian neighborhood known for being very rightwing and racist (black kids who walked thru there in the 80s and 90s were routinely assaulted, at least 2 were killed). During the wc, I had to stop going to two bars that I frequent to watch football games because some of the worst elements of these nationalistic Italians were there. It was very painful to listen to them talk about the French national team in ways that shocked me deeply—I thought I had stepped into a time machine and walked into Mussolini’s Italy. What was worse was non-Italian Americans joining them because of the obsessive hatred of France in this country. None of these people even followed football, certainly not the Italian league. They didn’t even know their own players very well. It was just an opportunity to spew hate and indulge in chest-pounding nationalism. I know full well they are not representative of the Italian nation as a whole (I lived in Italy for 3 years and there’s a very vibrant activist community there fighting against racism) but unfortunately it’s the worst elements who I was most exposed to at the time.

Posted from  United States

Marco P, basically the TV camera angle was facing Abidal, and for the most part, he was looking down as he was walking, then raised his eyes for about a second as he passed the Italian bench, as if called or something, then had no reaction or expression at all and kept going. Don’t ask me why I keep this game on tape

Sandrahn, clearly the Marseillaise was badly booed (without mutual disrespect), unlike against the Dutch or Romanians. And I hope you find good bars for the World Cup! Thanks for telling your experience.

laurie, once you checked the youtube video and clearly saw gattuso, pirlo and zambro near ribery, you should have changed your post…this kind of speculation and incendiary posting just encourages country bashing and makes the problems between the 2 countries’ fans worse…
i am neither french nor italian and this post frankly seems more like british tabloid reporting – speculation on what a pic which is just a snapshot in time means – just to encourage more comments and very unlike either the offside or you personally…

Posted from  Switzerland

I applaud Laurie for initiating such a thread as it does generate
discussion, not everyone has to agree or disagree with what sandrahn and I are saying! We’re just exposing and shedding light to another frequent occurance during these international competitions where we live.
Now it’s obvious most of these players are familiar with each other on a more personal level but that in no way diminishes the rivalry or the will to go all out for your country. So yes the Italian players were sincerely concerned with the injury to Ribery, but would they voluntarily send off
let’s say TONI to make it an even match? HELL NO!
Thanks Laurie.

typical Italian way of playing soccer

Posted from  Netherlands

Even if he’s normally a good guy, he probably was engaging in jibing. I don’t see it as a problem, to be honest, it’s boys being boys in the heat of battle. I feel bad for Abidal: he looked like a deer caught in headlights from the beginning. I don’t see what the problem is with Laurie posting the photo, though I don’t think it merits a verdict on Cannavaro’s peronality. Everyone wanted to know what Materazzi said to Zidane, and I’m sure we’d all be interested to know what was communicated when this photo was taken.
As far as jeering the Marseillaise goes, the Italian fans did it in qualifying, so I expect they did it in this game (I didn’t catch the first few minutes of the broadcast). The French do get a lot of abuse from people who don’t even know why they dislike the them, and people like Italy and they don’t even know why. I’ve had some pretty amazing discussions with american soccer fans (this usually means non-U.S. origin) about why they can’t stand France. Really bizarre stuff some of them have heard about some of the players.
I never met a single french person until after I went to university. While I didn’t really have an opinion one way or another, I grew up knowing they were supposed to be snotty people. So yeah, I’d say the U.S. is generally pretty francophobic. People here have no problem saying things about the french that would be considered racist about any other group, but they love everything Italian. It’s just bizarre.

Posted from  United States