Frenchman and Italian getting along?

I really think people should stop with the bullshit hatred that only Domenech started. France and Italy are friendly rivals. France and Italy never had any problems before Ray Ray started talking shit.
I think it’s time to put it all to rest

Well I just hate Italy for hijacking the 2006 world cup. But I do like Italian players like Toni, Panucci, Buffon. Till France causes a Italin heartbreak they will be on my hatelist. Now Netherlands has joined my hatelist as well.

That’s one part of it, but Domenech’s not necessarily in everybody’s thinking (Mind you it’s a rare Italian who likes him).

It’s a fierce rivaly. If we met in person, we’d kiss and have an aperitif. If we’re commenting on a message board after a painful loss, we may lose the run of ourselves.

France beat Italy in the 1998 World Cup and traumatically in the 2000 Euro. I’d call it even, from my perspective.

This video was widely shared all over the net a couple of months ago (I think I saw a couple more on youtube of the Bayern players, or a longer version of this one). I followed Bayern all season long and I know in Germany these two became a very popular pair. I already like Toni before he went to Bayern but I loved him even more at Bayern, esp. watching him play with Ribery, Klose (the Germans call the paid “kloni”) and the rest. For me, apart from Arsenal at their best, watching Ribery and Toni play together provided last season’s most exciting football moments.

While I’m glad to see Italy eliminated from the euros, I felt badly for Toni for his poor form at the tournament, people have been trashing him all over the net and the football press. He really is a fine striker, top class, he’s just had a horrid tournament. Ribery is a practical joker and the two get along very well.

The animosity is among the fans, not the players (with a couple of exceptions)–most of whom are friends or at least acquaintances, so many of them have played at the same clubs. Thuram has said so many times throughout his career that he loves Italy passionately. Trezeguet too has had a long love affair with Italy. Vieira of course came out publicly saying he does not like Materazzi but has no issues with the other Italian players. And it was widely covered in Italy that several Italian players on the national team at first threatened a protest to Lippi when they learned that Materazzi had been named in the squad.

I disagree with magnusson, I think the hostility began as a result of the 2006 wc final. Before that, the rivalry between the two countries was there but not as intense as it is today. France’s recent excellent record against Italy before the 2006 wc final had intensified the rivalry on a competitive basis, but the animosity wasn’t like it is now.

I think another added element to it is the 2006 wc–being such a global event, and with France advancing into the final–drew in a lot of interest from a non-footballing nation like the USA, where there is a huge amount of francophobia, and a large Italian population. The two got intertwined and the headbutt just opened the door to all of it. Had the final ended without any such incident, there would still be some tension but I don’t think it would’ve reached the level that it has.

Sandrahn:

Compliments on such a circumspective and even-handed analysis !

jeff do you mean aperitif with an (i).

@ sandrahn
“non-footballing nation like the USA, where there is a huge amount of francophobia”
you are right, that is why in school i go by the name of oli or micheal, because the minute they know you have french background they start discriminating. i can say the same thing for france hating americans.

ribery is way better than toni

between this and the friendly bet with klose, toni seems like a good guy.

aperitif. Merci, Michel-Olivier. Ça y est – it’s fixed.

Screw it Michel-Olivier. Make them accept your name. Pronounce it right even. I know its easy to say since I cringe when I hear “Gene-Michael” myself. I hear the “frog” comments as well but things have quieted down in comparison to Franco/American tensions surrounding Chirac’s decision to not send French troops to Iraq. Some time has passed since Americans coined the term “freedom fries” and were emptying bottles of red wine in front of the French Embassy in D.C. as well.

Jean-Michel – That was a strange period. Isabelle was shaken after pulling up behind a truck that had a homemade sign urging people to boycott France. Still, I don’t know that many people were moved by his sign to change their vacation plans? “Freedom fries” was a real low, except for those who meant it ironically as a kind of self-mockery.

Jeff- Wasn’t it though? It felt like the twilight zone or something. I can take a joke just as much as the next person but some of the things I saw and heard were ridiculous.

@ Jean Michel
I hear the “frog” comment too and also the “loser” and “coward” comment because of ww2. It’s ridiculous because the french blood i have in my vein is less than 10%.
@ jeff
they should called it Belgian fries or chips like the brits

i know of a few places that still call them that. fucking ridiculous really.

What did France do to America except oppose Iraq war?

… and why should a civilized country like France wage a war for the economic interests of the USA?

Here in Canada most of the hatered towards France comes from the people with English/Scotish/Irish heritage specially Man U. Fans, and I’m not kidding! poor racists losers that they are!

In Canada most of the hatered comes from people with English,Scotish,Irish
heritage, specially Man U. fans and I’m not kidding!

Got disconnected sorry 4 the double post! Anyone else from France going to the Serbian match?
Let me know as I’m about to purchase my single ticket, with my luck I’ll be sitting next to some die-hard Serbian fans.

“Heh, wie geht’s, eh squadra!”
I like that vid so much. Already seen parts of it on TV. This french-italian-german language sounds so funny to me. I read they’re studying german together, but they’re more laughing than learning.
Since I know Toni from the Bundesliga, i got rid of the prejudice that every italian striker is also a diver… and he looks nice in Lederhosen.

@Foreverzidane: I may be going to the match if the Academie de Clermont-Ferrand would send me my info soon. I’m going to be in France from Sept/Oct to April/June on the Assistant Etranger program for teaching english to the gamins of France. I’ll let you know what unfolds.

Uh-oh.
Ben Arfa is moving to Marseille!
He will replace Nasri who is getting closer and closer to moving to Arsenal.
http://www.lequipe.fr/Football/breves2008/20080625_134045_accord-ol-om-pour-ben-arfa_Dev.html

Oh good lord, c’mon. Americans dislike French for more reasons than the Iraq war. They’re elitist, snobbish, aristocractic (stereotypes of course, i know many french people who are incredibly nice) basically the opposite of a nation built on stupidity and mobile social classes.

It goes both ways. The few times I’ve been in France, I’ve frequently used my Italian passport/tell people I’m Italian. I’m not ashamed of being American but the anti-American sentiment in France just gets really old after a while and I don’t feel like dealing with it.

“And it was widely covered in Italy that several Italian players on the national team at first threatened a protest to Lippi when they learned that Materazzi had been named in the squad.”

…and it is widely known that this is absolute fabricated bullshit by you.

Kyle I got my ticket last night on-line $144 CDN,80euros+12.50=92.50 euros.
The seat I got is absolutely amazing and I think I will have to take medication prior to the match as this will be the first time ever I’ll see the LES BLEUS! My heart rate will be going through the roof!
Hopefully if all goes well I’ll be in Paris from Sept 5th – 14 perhaps a St.Germain game as well or a quick trip to the “Emirates stadium” to make it “FOOTBALL HEAVEN”!

the only american thats hates france more than anyone is bill o’rieley and i think he is behind the “boycot france stickers”.

foreverzidan am playing the mega million and i have good feeling that am going to hit it, the beer is going to be on me at the game.

ForeverZidane, I am so jealous! I made the same trip last year and had a fantastic time. (Even though the game I saw was the Scotland one. Sigh.) Will you be at Stade de France or Parc des Princes? We were at Parc des Princes because the Rugby World Cup was going on that same week at Stade de France.

If you’re taking the subway to the game, be sure to leave twice as much time as you think it’s going to take.

It’s my first time in Paris, and it will be the first time watching football of that caliber, although watching the under 21 championship in Toronto, wasn’t shabby either specially watching Aguerro of Argentina.
Thanks Laurie and anyone else for tips, on the do’s and the don’ts as it will be appreciated. I’ll be by my BLEU self, but will have one hot red time of my life! The Serbian team is quite strong with Vidic and company!
I’ll hope the “Stellas” won’t be too expensive, oh well there is always the great French wine! “outa control” hope you’ll numbers hit!

Laurie the game will be at Stade de France.

foreverzidane,

Stade de France is out of control, I was there last summer for the 2-0 victory over Ukraine with 75,000 other French fans. I’d say definitely leave 3-4 hrs before game time, there are a lot of little bars you can hit while you walk on the way to the Stade, if you are on a budget a LIDL is never far away and open container laws in France don’t exist. It is a great atmosphere and you are certainly going to find tons of nice people to mingle with!

Good evening brothers and sisters, football has definately got some issues. Let me transport back to time and post a thing of the past.
Unbelievable but sadly true..
2006 world cup final..I was watching the match with my cousins in their restaurant in Bergamo. My uncle was serving us and surprisingly for an Italian, football was his least favourite game, he was more into Formula 1 and Golf. we were shocked at the early French penalty and were very quiet with the images of Euro 2000 flashing past our minds. We were pleading for a miracle and an immediate Italian equaliser. Suddenly, my uncle who got us our wine asks like ¨¨Who is playing Italia?Ghana ??¨¨
There was a pin drop silence at that comment, the shock was obvious. But then, my cousin Roberto explained to him like¨¨dad, it is France¨¨And my uncle goes like ¨¨But i see only african players¨¨..
Sad but True..

i have real bad memories from a game played at the parc des princes during the eric cantona era, it was a qualifying match and all les bleus needed was a tie to go to the world cup finals, i cant definately remember who the team was but it was one of the eastern europen teams. cantona put us ahead but at the end we lost the game 1-2 it was either letchcov or balacov who scored the winning goal, so ever since i always have a bad feeling about that parc. am glad the sarbia game is not going to be played there.

It was the famous game France-Bulgaria, where Cantona and Ginola got banned from the National team for ever.

Set (or anyone else),

What did they–Cantona and Ginola–do to get banned?

Actually, sorry, I was wrong, they didn’t get banned. Everybody blamed Ginola for the loss 2-1 to Bulgaria, because in the last few minutes of the game, instead of keeping the ball, he missed a pass (a cross I think), who led to a game-winning, world-cup qualifying, counter attack by Bulgaria.

Neither of them were selected in the next major competitions. Including the Euro 2 years later. They did play a little in the qualification games though.

I wasn’t tuned in back then, but Isabelle frequently makes references about everybody (including her) blaming Cantona and Ginola for ruining the team and/or drastically underachieving.

lol @ porchetta. I was wondering how long it would take for one of you to come in here and start talking trash again. I did not see too many “Forza Italia” posts on 6/22 roughly around 6pm eastern standard time. What happened?

Umm … speaking of Cantona, I see the great man has this to say, as quoted in the Guardian:

“Obviously I would be the ideal person to manage France,” he quipped. “I would be able to put in place a more attractive style. Deschamps would be just a continuation of Domenech. But I don’t want the job and I certainly won’t be offered it.”

Cantona said his preferred place of employment would be Old Trafford or Soho Square. “English football flows through my veins and I would love to offer my vision to the English because it is a very beautiful vision.”

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/jun/27/france.englandfootballteam

He’s too funny I wish it would be him, just for the sake of funny interviews like this at every press conference.

Yeah, we could hear about the seagulls and the trawler.

(And we thought there was never a dull moment in Domenech interviews!)

Anything would be better than his acting.

Jean-Michel, I’ve never seen anything he’s been in. (Except for the Joga Bonito commercials. I thought he was pretty good in those.) I always wondered if his acting was any good. Apparently not?

Laurie,

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0134642/

This is his catalogue. I was shocked a bit myself at how many he’s done. I saw the “Deuxieme Souffle” movie which was pretty bad.

Very much enjoyed that vid. Thanks, Jeff.

But back to ‘93 … France needed just ONE point from its last two matches, against Israel and Bulgaria, both at home, to qualify for WC94. After being in front 2-1 in the last 10 against Israel, France loses http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO2rWCI45PU. Then, after being up 1-0, then tied 1-1, against Bulgaria, this happened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpwNv29XbbQ

I remember watching on TV that night, waiting to find out that the French would make it to the U.S. the next summer … The announcer calling that game must have seen that France-Bulgaria was tied late and included France among the teams that qualified …

The next morning, the Paris daily Liberation put it this way: ” France qualifies! … for 1998!”

Then again, while France might have had a shot to win WC94, you can easily make the argument that they likely wouldn’t have won WC98 had they qualified four years earlier. (Enter Zidane, Jacquet et al …) Notwithstanding, Bulgaria had a sublime squad/tournament in the U.S.

Very much enjoyed that vid. Thanks, Jeff.

But back to ‘93 … France needed just ONE point from its last two matches, against Israel and Bulgaria, both at home, to qualify for WC94. After being in front 2-1 in the last 10 against Israel, France loses. Then, after being up 1-0, then tied 1-1, against Bulgaria, they again lost on a wonderful, 90th minute Kostadinov strike. I tried to include the youtube videos, but couldn’t do so. They’re out there, though, for anyone who needs to peek in on yet more merde

I remember watching a recap on TV that night, waiting to find out for sure that the French would make it to the U.S. … The announcer calling that game must have seen that France-Bulgaria was tied late and, and after hesitating, included France among the teams that qualified …

The next morning, the Paris daily Liberation put it this way: ” France qualifies! … for 1998!”

Then again, while France might have had a shot to win WC94, you can easily make the argument that they likely wouldn’t have won WC98 had they qualified for the U.S. Notwithstanding, Bulgaria had a sublime squad/tournament in 94

@ princedesparcs

So what is exactly your point?

Didn’t know I needed to make one, FZ …

4evZZ, I guess the point is that 94 remains one of the lowest lows we’ve gone through, and yet 4 years later we won the Cup. I guess in 94 it was very likely that we were in (to the point they printed it) and we got robbed at the last second, and it didn’t feel real at all. We were all dumbfounded.
I remember my friends called Kostadinov, the guy who scored, Kalachnikov. That’s the effect he had on us.

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