Who’s In, Who’s Out for France

France Football has a nice article on the composition of the squad http://www.francefootball.fr/FF/breves2008/20080528_140218_la-liste-des-23_Dev.html. Overall, I’m quite pleased, and I’m also cautiously optimistic that Les Bleus will find their way out of the Group of Death.

I agree with you, Laurie, on Ben Arfa, and I’m not as shocked as many regarding Landreau (I’m a big Mandana and OM fan–he’s legit).

This is going to be fun. I hope Gomis gets some solid minutes!

tezeguet, mexes, and flanini(he join milan) playing in Serie A that’s where the problem lies. domenech hate itaty, and players who play in italy.
domenech is an asshole. i’m shock he selected frey, i though he was going with madada and mickael.

since my team(england) did not qualify ill be cheering for the orange and romania. good luck france, you’ll need it.
NO MORE COMMENT FROM ME

Domenech’s hate on for Italy is ridiculous and it will only hurt the team in the end. It clouds his judgement.

Mic, I’m not sure that’s accurate in this instance. (Although it has been in the past.) Trezeguet just hasn’t worked for the team with its current composition. Sad, becasue I like David, but true.

Frey is in, over a player from PSG. and I really believe that Mexes would have been in as well if not for the injury. I think Domenech just couldn’t take the chance that he’d be better given the chance of injury for an older player like Thuram. It was the same for Escude.

I really believe that Domenech has done what’s best for the team here, with the possible exception of Flamini vs. Vieira.

I’m very disappointed in taking Mandanda over Landreau. Otherwise, I have no problem with the list. Mexes and Escude aren’t fully fit, and Mexes’s injury is pretty serious anyway.

I’m pleased for Gomis though.

No Flamini? He did good against Ecuador and there was plenty of room for him on the list. I mean once again these Diarra’s falied to impress and yet one of them somehow makes it to the euro. Oh well C’est la vie. I am sure barring injury Flamini and Mexes will be in the 2010 World Cup. I am happy to see Nasri is in it as well as all the others. I was just wondering how reliable is squillaci? I haven’t seen him play for a long time. Well anyways this is our team and they will make us proud. Allez Les Bleus!

Yeah, its a real pity about Flamini.

Isn’t that Gomis selection good, though?!

I also feel quite sorry for Mexes, he’s never quite broken through, has he? Even though he’s been so solid for Roma in all this time…

Flamini for Vieira. Psh, that would be silly. Kinda comparable to Arsenal supporters boycotting for Clichy over Abidal and Evra. Landreau didn’t deserve to be in the squad, enough said. With Domenech and his quirks, the Ben Arfa exclusion was pretty obvious (not his immaturity if that’s what you are thinking).

I think it is fair to say that Raymond has a bias against Italy, as Mexès was NOT EXCLUDED BECAUSE OF INJURY! Escudé was the only one that was excluded because of not being fully fit.

Sorry Laurie, I think that you know I’m not the yelling type, and this wasn’t meant against you, it was that I’m a bit tired of our sélectionneur’s bias. (Also, I’ll willing admit I have Italian blood in me, even though I am a huge supporter of Les Bleus, of course.)

Weaknesses on this list, though:
Depth in central defense (does anyone truly want Boumsong, even if he’s been good in the past half of a season, appearing this summer?)
Lefties, anyone? (Malouda’s the only one that I see, except if Domenech is toying with the idea of Evra/Abidal as a winger)
Headers, anyone? Do we have a striker who is even in the area of Toni/Klose in the air?

Other than that, I applaud the selection of Gomis and Mandanda, as they’ve deserved it.

Guys i just need to know about coverage for the euros, i have fox soccer channel and espn, do i need to subscribe to setanta as well to get all the games?

Curious, has anybody seen anything official on how bad the Mexes injury really was? Now I’m curious. Because I really can’t see either Boumsong or Squillaci called up over a fully fit Mexes.

Outa control, it’s only the friendlies that will be on Setanta. If you’re in the US, all of the games will be on ESPN, ESPN2 or ESPN Classic. With maybe a couple on ABC. Full schedule is here: http://euro2008.worldcupblog.org/news/espn-euro-2008-schedule-announced.html

Mexès’ injury wasn’t so light, but I don’t believe it was that heavy, either. Then again, the only ones who know would be the FFF (including Domenech) and Philippe himself, though Ray made it apparent that Escudé was the only excluded due to injury.

Laurie, why does it surprise you, though? Both Boumsong and Squillaci happen to play for Lyon, which is +1000 points in Domenech’s world (whereas Italy is -1000).

No way Domenech would have taken Boumsong AND Squillaci over Mexes. Perhaps one, but not both. Mexes was injured enough that he was unable to even show up on the pitch for practice – not even light warm ups! We know Domenech well enough that he takes risks (playing Anelka, Toulalan, Malouda, and just now Escude) when it comes to playing guys who are still half-injured. But Chris from the Roma blog said that Mexes took a pretty big knock to his knee, and from the sound of it, it doesn’t look likely that he would have been fit in time.

I don’t know, Inara (then again, we disagree a bit as to whether Domenech is biased against Italy or not). In terms of chemistry, Domenech actually could be thinking that Mexès would be a disrupting force as he’s good friends with Evra (whom many think should start), Cissé (Auxerre teammates) and perhaps Landreau (don’t know, although they were together on Espoirs for a while). I mean, the advantage of taking 7 Lyonnais (except Ben Arfa, who could be a “disruptor”) is that there’s cohesion. The disadvantage is that it, no offense, takes away players who are arguably more deserving.

I saw that game where Mexes was injured and it looked very serious, I can’t see how Domenech would risk him in favor of a player with no injury worries.

“NO MORE COMMENT FROM ME” — can we depend on that please?

Jao:
“Flamini for Vieira. Psh, that would be silly. Kinda comparable to Arsenal supporters boycotting for Clichy over Abidal and Evra.”

What the hell are you talking about? Arsenal supporters (like me) aren’t “boycotting” anything. We’re sad for Clichy that he wasn’t named, surprised that Domenech hasn’t yet seen the boy’s quality, but we’re also glad he’s not going because our squad is already far too injury-prone and injury-ravaged as it is. We’re all relieved, frankly. Clichy’s played in every game this season, he runs like a nonstop battery up and down the pitch in every game for 90+ mins., he needs a break. Also, most gooners like me are quite able to see that Evra is a fine choice, easily one of the world’s best leftbacks. It’s Abidal we don’t get. I’ll take Clichy over Abidal any day. You may not see Clichy’s quality, but his fellow professional players in England certainly do by naming him as the season’s best leftback.

And yes, Flamini for Vieira–I certainly hope Vieira’s in great form during the tournament but if you compare the two players’ club forms this season, there’s no contest. Flamini wins hands down. However, Vieira’s experience may be more useful than Flamini’s youth and energy.

“the Ben Arfa exclusion was pretty obvious (not his immaturity if that’s what you are thinking).”

Then what was it?

Laurie, agree with your comments re Ben Arfa and Mexes, tho I somehow am not surprised about Landreau. I do like Mandanda, tho.

Looks like a fine squad at any rate. Onward to Switzerland/Austria! Allez les bleus!

I agree that Mexes is a better defender than either Boumsong or Squillaci, and to be honest, I’ve never had the impression that Domenech prefers them over Mexes. Abidal and Escude, yes, but not those two, which is obvious when you look at how little they’ve played for the NT (A’ games aside) in the last two years. In that time, Domenech’s called up Mexes with more frequency than Squillaci and Boumsong. Only once was Mexes not called up, and that was last year.

Mexes not going is a handicap, and Domenech knows it. Neither Boumsong nor Squillaci will start unless there is an injury, and Domenech will play Abidal as a CB before he resorts to them whereas he probably would have played Mexes in that situation.

Flamini not going was just a judgment call. When you already have the quality and talent of Toulalan and Diarra to back up Makelele and Vieira (who are undroppable a la Thuram and Henry), Flamini was just too much of the same thing. Domenech said before the tournament started that two players for every position except gk, which is three. It’s unfortunate for Flamini because it’s all down to timing – he didn’t break out until this season, and by then, Toulalan and Diarra were alredy established as the backups on the NT. He still has a shot for the World Cup though. It’s not like he’s old or anything.

sandrahn:

On the Clichy omission, apparently you know all Arsenal supporters that exists, so I can’t trump you there. Enough with the sarcasm, I should of said some Arsenal supporters boycotting his omission. On the Ben Arfa exclusion, seeing as how some of you have declared Domenech showing bias to Lyon players and with Ben Arfa’s impending transfer FROM LYON, maybe Domenech was making Hatem an example. Though from looking at the squad, Hatem was probably the last to get dropped.

We all have our own ideas about some of the players, in defense and midfield specially. I’ll assume that Domenech and his staff have seen a lot more tape than I have, a lot more games than I have, talked to a lot more people, they looked at them, talked to them in the last few days, and I haven’t. He knows a lot more stuff than I do about injuries, chemistry, charism of the older guys and the abilty for younger ones to listen. So I suppose his decisions are founded a lot more than just prefering a league to another (Mexes etc)(because in a way if you’re going to play Italy, you might want to get players who know their style). I respect his choice. It looks to me like a team that could get far provided they get their rhythm during the nasty group stage.
I suppose we should ask the coaches of Romania, Italy and the Netherlands if they think this is not a serious opponent. Hmmm.

I just hope Boumsong (Sorry Jean) gets injured and Mexes gets in somehow. Other than that the squad was as expected. Even I am not surprised with Landreau exclusion. He hasn’t been that good last season. And I think I agree with Seb on France’s shortcomings.

Jao, no I don’t know every Arsenal supporter, it’s your use of the word “boycott” that makes no sense. No gooner is “boycotting” the French NT because Clichy’s not included, that’s silly. A boycott implies some kind of organized rejection of something. Few gooners even care about the French (or English) NT. On all the Arsenal blogs I read everyone’s relieved he’s NOT going.

Inara, no argument from me re your explanation re Flamini, perfectly logical. He did arrive at the wrong time, since Domenech already has Toulalan (a personal favorite) and Diarra ahead of him. Ironic, since Diarra was behind Flamini at Arsenal, which caused Diarra to want out.

Have to admit, I am nervous about Boumsong. And I hope Sagnol’s performance yesterday is just a one-off. He’s not quite match-fit yet.

Hey all – I’m going to be traveling for a big chunk of the Euros, and need some help finding bars where I can watch the games. At the moment, I’m still looking for places to watch games in Philadelphia and D.C.

Can anyone give me a hand?

Fado in Philly will have the games (and Guinness):

http://www.fadoirishpub.com/philadelphia/

I forgot..

There’s a Fado in D.C. as well.

I Think the team looks great, and im fucking excited! I think we are going to see some action this cup. We got a solid mix….

Thanks briguy. Someone else told me about the Dark Horse – is that place any good?

dark horse is good but england centric. not sure who’ll watch the euros there?

somehow boumsong makes another list.

This Boumsong business is a disgrace. He is universally hated by all fans and does not even start at Lyon. How did he manage to get selected?

like everyone i find some defaults with this list…
but in the end, we all need to stop bitching about RD’s selection
cuz Domenech spends his 40 hours studying each player
according to each player’s ability, teamworkness, attitude…
unlike us who support the team. Domenech is a master strategist
and did what is best for the team to go to the finals.
in wc2006, i remember everyone criticizing his picks of chimboda
govou and others over ppl like pires and guily.
but in the end, he got us a great tournament which could have turned out
to make us champions if not for some bad luck.

Not to add any water to Michel-Olivier’s mill but I find the idea of dual-nationals being forced to play for their country of origin intriguing. Imagine Algeria with Nasri, Benzema and Zidane (back in the day), Senegal with Gomis, Viera and Niang, etc… This would make the world cup much more interesting to follow and put an end to the Euro/Brazil/Argentina domination. In the present configuration of the French NT, it would give us the following.

Out

Viera
Makelele
Gomis
L. Diarra
Benzema
Nasri

In

Bodmer
Flamini
Valbuena
Briand
Savidan (he’s the only other striker I can think of right now)
Menez (maybe)

The defense is pretty much unchanged. The midfield is much more interesting, with skill players replacing athletic players (Nasri excepted). The only area that would really suffer IMO are the strikers.

It’s also very wasteful of talent when you think of all the good dual-national players who will rarely get to play for France but would be starters for their country of origin.

That means Trezeguet ought to be playing for Argentina.

Trezeguet is actually ethnically French, though. He only trained in Argentina.

Isn’t his father part Argentine though?

Yes and no. Yes, as in, he’s an Argentine citizen, I think, no as in he isn’t ethnically Argentine, he is descended from French immigrants there (similar to how Racing in Argentina have a French influence due to immigrants, I think).

Hmmm, I should clarify the “he” in the post above describes Trezeguet’s dad, not Trezeguet. That’s what makes Trez different from Higuaín, as Higuaín is ethnically Argentine, I think.

In any case, I’m contributing to this continuing line of thought out of interest only. It is my personal belief that those of dual nationalities should be treated the same as all the others in terms of Les Bleus. Even though, interestingly enough, I do think Domenech has a preference for those of African descent. I also think, to an extent, that part of this has to do with his experience in Espoirs, where as a consequence of FIFA (who have stated one has until his 21st birthday to decide between nationalities), he could have thrown the dual-African guys into the mix if he believed they could be valuable in years ahead (it also could explain the Higuaín situation, especially then when he was being linked with big clubs across the continent).

Anyway, to get back on topic, one of my buddies was pointing out how good the “excluded” French team is.

Trezeguet
Ménez Bodmer Ben Arfa
Flamini A. Diarra
Clichy Escudé Mexès Sagna
Landreau

Seb, that’s funny. Chris, my co-blogger over at the Euro main page, is writing an All-Excluded-from-Euro XI of the best players not going to Euros. France could pretty much field their own team.

Now let’s just hope Domenech has the chemistry right in the ones who remain.

Flamini’s father is Italian, born in Roma … There goes that *&#@ing midfield! Put another way, this entire debate should have had its day, long ago. But … Although Ben’s proposition has got a modicum of intrigue, who’s to decide how far back you trace heritage? (I don’t get the “ethnicity” part, considering that the French, like most “nationalities,” are bastards and mutts – & I don’t mean that pejoratively at all. Consider Brazil and Argentina, to take just two heady instances football-wise. Ben and Seb, your propositions becomes very problematic with regard to those two nations, no?)

So, what is a “country of origin”? Is someone born, raised and schooled on an American air base in the Philippines, for instance, Filipino or American? And besides all that, there’s something disturbing about knowing that a person is being “forced” to play for one country rather than another. It comes down to this: Each who had the opportunity to play for either Argentina/Senegal/Congo/etc or France made a choice at some point. And while you can argue that France has the better pedigree, training, schooling, etc, it has, for those same reasons, more competition for nat’l team slots. All who chose France took their chances, and some, you can readily reason, not so smartly.

I, and I hope like most posting or reading here, will cheer when players from an African, Asian or Scandinavian nation raise the Jules Rimet. I just want to get my rocks off watching grown men have a sublime, even beautiful go on the green grass of, yes, another country; in this case, and I hope for better, Osterreich or la belle Suisse. One way and/or the other, I will scream with joy or curse with discontent for a month, and look forward to more of same two years hence. For now, suffice it to say … Allez les (noires/blancs/jaunes/rouges – j’men fous) Bleus!

Thanks for your hard work over the last few, Laurie. Though, despite your misgivings, I’m looking for Vieira to have an awesome June. Except for two or maybe three exceptions (Flamini for Diarra; Clichy for Abidal; and a healthy MXS for Boumsong), I think RD’s squad is solid. More than than, it appears to have a cohesiveness akin to ‘98. But the key to the group is three points against Romania.

No offense, princedesparcs, though I don’t know why you’re throwing me into the discussion. As I stated in my post, I totally support those who have dual nationalities as much as anyone else as I am of dual nationalities myself. I assume that you misunderstood the post?

In any event, as much as I want France to do well, I’ve had it up to here with Raymond. It’s not that I would want a Santini or Lemerre again either, it’s that I am sick of having some of our best footballers excluded due to personal bias. Nevertheless, I think our team is good enough as is to be very competitive this summer, but if I could have it my way, we’d win, though while attempting to grab the trophy, Domenech would collapse, though straight into Estelle’s (ample) bosom, then he’d have the epiphany that caring over *that* is better than selecting our national team.

I can’t believe I typed that, but I did.

Seb,

I brought you into the discussion on reading the “ethnically French” allusion re Trez. Apologies for taking that out of context given your follo post.

Oh it’s alright, buddy, been a tough day, that’s all (especially as I’ll admit I’m very pro-Mexès). Hmmm, I actually think that your post is quite correct, and I especially agree that the match against Romania is very important. I doubt it will come out like this, but a starting XI I would be happy to see:

Henry Benzema
Malouda Nasri Ribéry
Vieira
Evra Abidal Gallas Sagnol
Frey

Of course, this won’t happen as Coupet is the guaranteed starter (and he deserves it, even if I believe Frey is better), Thuram appeared quite good against Ecuador (but I have a fear he could turn into the Desailly of the Euro before in Portugal), and we know Domenech will almost certainly have his 2 defensive midfielders. Though if it were me, I’d choose to attack, and not only on the flanks, which is why Nasri’s in there.

how did mexes not make this team! i cant believe it. boumsong is a joke he barely plays for a lyon defense that is not very good to begin with. Mexes is the backbone of roma and played very well this year especially in the CL! domenech is a douche. trezeguet is another example, put the quarreling to the side and select the best players you can for the better good. he had 20 goals this year in serie A and looked like he was in peak fun. i wanna see france get shit kicked now so domenech gets canned because he has the competence of a 5 year old

Um, just to clarify I never brought up the issue of ethnicity. I guess I was mostly trying to think of a way to avoid wasting (at the national team level) the massive amount of talent that comes out of the Clairefontaine/French club youth system. France could be up there with Brazil as the largest exporter of soccer talent in the world.
Also, the comment about Brazil/Argentina some other poster made didn’t make sense to me. My comment was about how many nationalities you have, not your ethnic pedigree. Like most sane people, it doesn’t matter to me what a player’s ethnicity is.

Huge respect to princedesparcs for his fantastic post. I was going to post the same sort of thing but he got there before me, and said it better than I could.

“It comes down to this: Each who had the opportunity to play for either Argentina/Senegal/Congo/etc or France made a choice at some point. And while you can argue that France has the better pedigree, training, schooling, etc, it has, for those same reasons, more competition for nat’l team slots. All who chose France took their chances, and some, you can readily reason, not so smartly.”

There are also plenty of players who choose NOT to be part of the French team in favor of their African “country of origin” even tho that may mean playing for a country with fewer resources than France. Freddy Kanoute chose Mali over France. Didn’t Drogba choose Ivory Coast over France too?

What infuriates me are those ignorant racists who see black players on the French NT and shout “that’s not France, that’s Africa!” Doesn’t to matter to these idiots if those black players were born and raised in France, or that they emigrated to France as toddlers and were raised, educated and trained there–they can never be “authentically” French to these idiots! Vieira does feel attachment to Senegal but he emigrated to France at the age of 8, has visited Senegal only twice since then as an adult (for brief visits) and doesn’t speak the native tribal language at all. He’s been raised, educated, trained in France–that’s the country he’s spent most of his life in.

Then there are players who genuinely adopt a country even at a later age but they’re never seen as “authentic”–the only thing that matters to the morons of the world is where they were born. Arsenal’s Eduardo da Silva gets the same crap. He left Brazil at the age of 15 for Croatia to play club football, developed a genuine attachment to Croatia, speaks the language fluently, married a Croatian, and is now on their NT. He says he wants to return to Croatia in his later life and retire there. He cheers for Croatia ahead of Brazil now. It’s true he couldn’t get on the Brazilian NT but it’s not as if he tried very hard either.

@sandrahn: Wow! That was a flame if I ever saw one. I will try not to stoop to your level and start insulting people for no apparent reason. However, I would like to point out that you seem to have missed the central point of the discussion: namely what would be most entertaining from a soccer fan’s perspective. Now before I start explaining this in more detail I would like to point out 2 things:

1) I realize the proposition I put forward a few posts back is not workable. It is merely a way to get people to consider how good some of the African teams could have been if so many of their young talent wasn’t gobbled up by France.

2) I realize that Viera, Makelele, etc… are just as French as anybody else and I fully support their right to represent their country on the soccer field if that’s what they want to do. BTW, Viera is my favourite player on the French NT (and I have French citizenship so I support France before any other team).

So again, the idea was not about racism but about how to make the World Cup more entertaining. My main point was that France might not loose so much because there is a wealth of talent in the youth system over there whereas some African teams (Senegal and Algeria most readily come to mind) would have a lot to gain. This would in turn increase the level of competition in the tournament.

The only African team I can think of that managed to keep most of their talent was Nigeria during their golden generation (Okocha, Kanu, Yekini, West, etc… I remember them fondly) and they won the Olympics and did very well in 1998. I just wish there were more teams like them.

So do us all a favor next time amd take the time to actually read the posts before you get on your high horse.

Thanks a bunch.

Ben, that post was NOT aimed at you!!! That was no flame! I wasn’t even thinking about your original post at all when I typed what I wrote. Nothing which you said implies the kind of attitude I complained about. So please calm down!

And btw, I DID read your posts (all of them) very carefully and found nothing wrong with them.

i don’t have much of a problem with this list. i think Domenech has guts to take Gomis over Cissé and Mandanda over Landreau. I would have liked to have seen Ben Arfa play in the Euro but he does have some flaws in his playing still despite all his talent. I’m thrilled that Nasri is going, I expect him to do some good things..if he plays. Boumsong has played very well this season at Lyon and has a lot of confidence. I am OK with his inclusion. Flamini doesn’t have enough experience with Les Bleus yet so its kind of a good idea for him to wait until the WC. And Mexes is injured so its a bit of a risk.

Ben,

Truly no harm meant. As I said, I found your suggestion intriguing. But I sense it’s problematic, namely in that “origin” is a slippery notion that can’t help but veer off into questions of race and ethnicity. And those are territories fraught with menace and hazard. In fact, I would argue that on the Continent, those obstacles have so far helped defer greater African success at the WC. That being said, I thought sandrahn’s initial posting today thoughtful and decidedly devoid of malice or even insult.

I apologize for my reaction. It seems I didn’t understand the intent of sandrahn’s post. I hope no harm is done and that there are no hard feelings.

But still, they have no chance against … ROMANIA!!!
Look here, the whole Switzerland trebles http://www.gsp.ro/stire/cum-ii-vad-elvetienii-pe-tricolori-71159.html

I really like the readers of this blog and your ability to work things out and discuss things intelligently without it getting out of hand. It’s so easy to misconstrue things in 2-D black and white.

Thank you for being great readers and commenters.

Yes! and what’s more, what makes you French or Craotian, or whatever in sport, besides your passport, is the system that made you a player. Here, anyone who is the product of the french academy system has legitimacy to play for the NT, whether it was Clairefontaine or Auxerre, or Monaco! Tht’s how you measure the true level of a nation- not with the billion-worth clubs that steal younger players like Engliand (look where they are now).

I feel that these players represent France in an excellent way. I think that as a supporter of France you must support your team regardless of skin color or ethnicity or whatever. I mean these guys are willing to sweat and bleed to ensure that France gets the gold and that is commendable. However one thing that troubles me is that sometimes I feel that they are looking to other places more for talent than they are in France. I don’t want a French born player’s chance at playing at a major tournament for France to be taken away by foreign talent. With that said I also feel if you have the chance to bring in a foreign player who is the next best thing go for it. Also we must understand why some people feel so harshly against non-white players playing for France. Though as one of you said, French people are really mutts, they are still a mxture of european ethnicities. My point being that most of France’s population is white and therefore when they see that most of the players are black or non white of course they are not going to be happy. Unfortunatley they get racist when they shouldn’t. But come on people all I know is that if 20 of these players were white and only three were minorities the other side would be crying foul.