Spain-France — Open Thread

Here’s the goal…

http://www.zshare.net/video/7261263e769e37/

Posted from  United States

trezegol anyone?

Posted from  United States

I completely agree that the lack of a feed is a disgrace. What channels do fellow readers have access to? I have Fox Soccer Channel, Setanta, and TV5 (no GolTV). TV5 is often a good bet to have France friendlies, but I remember not having access to a previous Spain-France friendly (blasted protectionists).

I’ve never had any luck with Sopcast et al. streams. As a matter of self-preservation, I’ve long since given up trying.

Kyle - Thanks for the link to the goal. Maybe the Fox Soccer Report will have more highlights.

Even with a good feed, analysis isn’t nearly as much fun for a friendly.

Laurie,
Dailymotion has already several videos in this page:
http://www.dailymotion.com/search/france+espagne/1
and even has large chunks of 15mn or so.

But look at this:
http://www.dailymotion.com/search/france+espagne/video/x4ao66_transversale-de-benzema-et-ratage-d_extreme
A beauty from Sagnol to Benzema which hits the bar and Titi misses, the score could have been different.

Oh, and apparently La Marseillaise was whistled again. “Friendly”, eh?

Doume’s right - those Daily Motion clips are pretty good. You lot are fantastic at finding highlights online. So the game was on TF1, but they couldn’t be bothered to send a feed across the pond. That game should be on tape-delay in prime-time on TV5.

With Henry, Anelka, and Benzema, the strikers up front should just about be sorted. I say why not have Trezeguet as the fourth striker. I’ve been really down on performances for France for the last few years, but his record in Italy can not be overlooked.

I really like Domenech compared to Lemerre and Santini, but persisting with Abidal, for me, when Evra looks like a better option, is a Lemerre move.

Okay, so the Moroccans booed because they’re a former colony. Italians booed because, well, it’s Italy. What’s Spain’s excuse?

Posted from  United States

No excuse. Nobody really likes France

Posted from  Canada

I guess it’s different when you have something to come home to. Me, I don’t feel more at home than when I’m in France.

Hence me quitting my lucrative job and applying to teach English there for a year.

France me manque bcp.

Posted from  United States

No excuse. Nobody really likes France
I’m still not making the connection between not liking a country and booing its anthem (as opposed to penning a bestseller about it and getting the French to pay you to read it), but apparently I’m just humor-impaired…

Posted from  United States

Maybe they’re backing their racist coach Arragones.

Posted from  United States

Laurie, I have read all of them except for ‘Merde Actually’ and they are amazing. I own ‘Talk to the Snail’ and ‘In the Merde for Love’, which I read during my last trip there. Definitely helped (at least ‘Talk to the Snail’) for some reason French women are less than open, while Frenchmen will gladly speak to me. C’est comme ça…the thing you want the most is always the hardest to get lol.

Posted from  United States

I know about some of that snootiness, Laurie, but as you say not everyone’s like that and also, given time, that snootiness usually goes away. In the mid-90s I taught English in Paris for two months and totally won my skeptical students over when they saw that I had none of that ugly American arrogance and ignorance about the world, that I came to France having tried hard to brush up on my French and be aware of the contemporary French political and cultural landscape…in other words, that I didn’t conform to their stereotype about the clueless American. Also being Brazilian and a New Yorker did help — they love New York. They were a wonderful bunch of students of all ages and they remain my friends to this day.

BTW, booing the opposition’s national anthem is a very common thing now. English fans do this all the time. They booed the Swiss national anthem last night, they booed the Brazilian and German anthems last year, they routinely boo every single opposition their national team faces.

And to Fred — I do like the French so f–k off!

Posted from  United States

BTW, if anyone’s interested, here’s a masterful deconstruction of the twisted obsessions and hypocrieis of the Anglo/American media in their treatment of France:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/2/17374/18076/11/448496

Posted from  United States

I haven’t read the Stephen Clarke “Merde” series. I did read the first couple books in the Peter Mayle “Provence” series. There’s a section in one of Bill Bryson’s books about visiting France that was quite good. It’s just a chapter or two, so it doesn’t pose a big time commitment, and might be worth looking for in your local library. I’m pretty sure the book I’m remembering is “Neither Here Nor There: Travels in Europe” by Bill Bryson.

Kyle - there’s a section in the same Bryson book about how he and his friend Katz approach girls. It’s of absolutely no practical use, but I remember it being good for a laugh.

Posted from  United States

Yes, I think booing the anthem (sorry for starting this BTW, Laurie!) is really saying more about the public than about the nation booed. I was actually proud of the respectful silence accompanying the Italian anthem in Sept 06 in Paris.
BTW one of the most stingingly sad moments for me was a France-Algeria friendly maybe 1 week after Sept 11. The minute of silence in honor of the victims was raucous, the Marseillaise was booed, and Zidane also, who left early. And that was in Paris. The bad history of colonialism I guess.

Oh well I think for people to unerstand things better, I recomend people to visit
http://www.superfrenchie.com
which, through all kinds of topics, from silly to serious, explains things about us and our relationship with all things American. The faces, the tones of voice, the body language can be also a cultural thing, not something personally directed at you. In fact I have heard the kindest, sweetest things said in a tone of voice that could have sounded snooty.
Ah Kyle, French women are just something else

But Laurie, to come back to the game: Titi, Raymond, Vieira and the others seem to be very satisfied about what the game was like (even Henry saying in l’Equipe that they could have won). Didn’t you love that ball from Sagnol to Benz? What a “caviar” (cf French 101)

Laurie,
I absolutely was not offended by what you said, and I’m sorry my tone came across that way. In fact, I was sitting there thinking that I wish I could laugh at Fred’s comment—which was amusing, in a somewhat non sequitur-ish way—as you have done, but I couldn’t.

The books I recommend capture the conflict and difficulties of an outsider in France perfectly, and in a hysterically funny (yet more or less respectful and loving) way. A lot of French people love them. They sell them in the airport.
Yes, I’ve read the recommendations on your other blog some time ago (here revealing my cyber-stalking ways), hence the comment about getting the French to pay for the books you write about them. For what it’s worth, here is a fascinating discussion on the word “insolence,” as it was used in the article you mentioned in your post.

BTW, booing the opposition’s national anthem is a very common thing now.
Is it? English supporters have a reputation that precedes them, unfortunately, so I can’t say I’m really surprised, coming from them. But how common is this sort of behavior elsewhere?
See, when something like this happens, I feel like I have to find some sort of rationale or “trigger” that explains that sort of response. For the English, the fan culture has become its own explanation, whether that’s fair or not.
So what was Spain’s reasoning? The fact that the only match they’ve won against France within the past 25 years was in 2001, in yet another meaningless friendly? That Henry “dove” in the WC match against them, and had earlier allowed their selectionneur to make a fool out of himself in the international press? That the French have too many black players for their tastes?

And yes, I am taking this way too seriously. It’s been a long week here, too.

Thanks for the link, Doumé.

Posted from  United States

Getting back on topic also, does anyone have l’Equipe’s player ratings for the match? Here’s the one from Football365, fwiw:

France
Coupet : 5,5
Sagnol : 5,5
Thuram : 7
(Escudé, 46eme : 5,5)
Gallas : 6
Abidal : 5
Vieira (cap) : 4,5
(Ben Arfa, 82eme)
Toulalan : 4
L.Diarra : 4,5
Malouda : 4
Anelka : 5
(Benzema, 60eme)
Henry : 4,5

Espagne
Casillas (cap) : 6
Sergio Ramos : 5
(Angel, 46eme : non noté)
(puis Juanito, 75eme)
Albiol : 5
Marchena : 5
(Pablo, 46eme : 5)
Capdevila : 5
Albelda: 4,5
(Xabi Alonso, 63eme)
Xavi: 6
Iniesta : 5,5
Fabregas : 4,5
Riera : 4
(Villa, 46eme : 4,5)
Torres : Non noté
(Güiza, 24eme : 4)

Posted from  United States

glatisant, I’m entirely in agreement, I detest fans who boo any nat’l anthem. And you’re right about the English fan culture — many English fans themselves don’t go to int’l games because they detest their compatriots who behave like idiots.

The Spanish? There are a lot of racist fans in Spain (yes, yes, I know, so do other countries). Did you hear about that recent fracas in Spain with the auto racing champion Hamilton? Spanish fans came wearing black face and guerrilla suits and made with the monkey chants. Charming.

No national team on the planet is as victimized with this kind of racist hate than the French NT. Wherever they go, they hear this kind of thing. Spain’s ultras are like Italy’s ultras — they’re highly organized and they verbally assault black players all the time. I think a lot of Spanish fans just can’t get past France’s frequent victories over them and the fact that in their eyes the French team is comprised of inferior black players. Those were the fans who booed, I’m sure.

(Tho to their credit, zizou remains incredibly popular in Spain — I’ve met Spanish fans who hate Real Madrid but while zizou was playing for them they’d say “I hate Real Madrid — except zidane.” During the entire zidane-bashing episode that came out of the wc final, outside of France, it was Spain that almost uniformly remained supportive of him).

The Spanish fans also booed the English nat’l anthem when they played England last year, btw. Both sets of fans competed in being idiots.

Neither glatisant or Doume nor anyone else should apologize for feeling offended — I’m not even French but I deeply, passionately detest mindless, bigoted France-bashing and I do take offense at it.

And I regularly visit superfrenchie.com.

Posted from  United States

“those who perceive the team as French and the French as arrogant probably whistle. And those who view the team as too black (and thus not French enough) will also. They can’t win, and thus get double the abuse of other countries because people who hate them do so for opposite reasons.”

Exactly, well said.

As to all those anglo-written books about living in France and living with those funny, crazy, difficult frenchies, check out this blog posting from the Guardian:

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/02/bad_french_english_writers_abr.html

Posted from  United States

As per l’Equipe’s player ratings it doesn’t look like the midfield lit things up. When exactly do their spots come under any type of scrutiny?When do they start worrying about future call ups? The Trezeguet thing has been an ongoing issue but so has midfield’s mediocrity.

Posted from  United States