We’re Nmber 2!! We’re Number 2!!

point taken.

Posted from  Canada

Skillz,
You made me tired.
1) The fact that a canadian think he is original because he cheers Germany is laughable. As far as i remember, it was and is the first country always cheered by your compatriots. the few canadian pro play in bundesliga, and the way of play of canadian team look like german. Most of “legends” of candanian fooball said Germany was for them a model.
2)”the worst of Europe” if for you , Europe it’s only England and spain, may be Italy, so yes the french league is the worst. there is a number of teams, each year according to the performance of the clubs, France is among the best, why ?Because regulary there is a french club among the top four or top eight. The french players play outside for fiscal reason, to avoid to give half of their fortune to France state.
3) In 1954 the best team of the world was Hungary, by dopping, germans managed to win. Could you give me seven big stars of hungarian football now in 2007? Past unfortunatly, sometimes is not present. The fact that Germany won three times by the past,doesn’t mean it is the best now. Germany was unable to beat Chypre. Brazil was unable to beat France in an official match since more than twenty five year… Italy more in an open match…

Posted from  France

Thierry, the French league is the worst in europe? Seen any games in Finland, various Eastern European countries, Belgium, Luxembourg, Iceland? I could name several other European countries with leagues that are much worse. The top 3 leagues in Europe are Italy, Spain and England. Second tier leagues are Germany, France, Holland and Portugal. I watch German football and I don’t find the quality there any worse or better than the French league.

Posted from  United States

Skillz, you clearly are deeply uninformed. How long have you been a football fan? Anyone who says Germany are the best European team already betrays their ignorance. First off are you talking about the national teams or the domestic leagues? Anyone with any knowledge of football understands the difference.

The world’s 3 best domestic leagues are Italy, Spain and England. The quality of Germany’s domestic league is inferior to all of them. The quality of the national team, however, is something else. Only Italy succeeds in both. Germany’s national team is better than its domestic league but it is not the best.

NO ONE of any credibility — not one football journalist or pundit, not one truly informed fan, NO ONE — would make that claim. The best two European teams today are clearly Italy and France as a result of their performances. Germany is certainly up there but it is not the best.

And please stop repeating the racist idiocy that France relies on “foreign” players — they are all Frenchmen, all citizens. Most were born in France. The rest emigrated to France as toddlers. All were raised, educated and trained in France. France is where their primary life experiences occurred. It is racist to deny them their identity just because some of them have black faces.

Posted from  United States

When Francois said: “They(Germans) need Polish players to win these days.” I responded by saying “France needs anyone who isnt french these days.” I saw a more than obvious opportunity to give Francois a taste of his own ignorance. The Polish players hes refering to are citezens of Germany. Also, I never used the word ‘foreign’ in regards to any French players. I think Francois understood and took my point well without letting his emotions get in the way.
How dare you throw around words like racist!! Why must you single out, as YOU say ‘black faces’. Their are many players in France of different origins. For example, Moroccon, Corsican, and Arab. What is racist is being spit on by a boucer in Marseilles because you are north African. It is racit to ghettoize immigrants an account of their race like they do just outside of Paris! It is racist to harass a group of young French Turks by the police for no reason! And it is racist to elect a man(sarkozy)who “promises to rid the streets of France from the scum.” He was reffering to the youths of arab, north african and african descent when they were protesting social inequity and institutional racism.

Listen, you cant just make stuff up to make someone else look bad, especially by using such strong terminology. This attitude of yours concerns me deeply.
You really have to think about what you say and not let sensitive feelings get in the way. Otherwise you end up writing ignorant things as you did, of course. It is this kind of reaction, based on emotions and ignorance which troubles me most and I think its how conflicts ignite and I think you embarass all of us French fans out there. VIVE LA FRANCE TOUJOURS!!

Posted from  Canada

Thierry
quote “Also, I never used the word ‘foreign’ in regards to any French players.”unquote
quote”#

skillz | June 5th, 2007 at 10:11 am

I was just wondering, does anyone know which players on team france were actually born in france?

Posted from Canada Canada”unquote.

Posted from  France

Skilz are you a politician ?

Posted from  France

Yes… I did say that back on June 5th. Whats your point? That is a legitimate question as there ARE players on France who were born outside of France, regardless of their current citizenship status. And I was curious to know which ones they were. Where do you see the word foreign in that statement? Nice try Terry.

Posted from  Canada

As French fans we should all be able to discuss the good and the bad and not just say “oh, we’re the best, Italy sucks, we should have beat them.” It makes for boring discussion when you do that.

Posted from  Canada

Skillz,
To the level of the discussion, you’re right. To the legitimaty of your question about the nationality or the interest to know ” how manyplayers on team france were actually born in france?” you’re wrong. I give you the list of the glorious team of 82/86: Baratelli,Ettori(doesn’t sound french italians may be?) Lopez(Spanish origin), Janvion(a black people, are black people could be considered as french?), Bossis(doesn’t sound french but difficult to determine origin so french we say), Tresor(black, french?), Amoros(spanish), tigana(black),Giresse(undefinated origin so french, i presume), Platini(italian),Fernandez(spanish), Genghini(italian…)Etc…The fact is i am unable to dertemined if someone is french or not. Be french who wanna be french. The fact that no one was surprised or curious of the place players born, for the last teams, and that many people seem to be horrified by these players who weren’t born in France. The only reason for me is because they are black. Is anyone ever care to know if Platini or Fernandez were born in France or not? to your information only Vieira was born in Senegal, but to have the honor to play with and against him when he was young, i can assure you he considers himself as french. Ah yes Kopa french legend, best striker ever in World Cup, polish…But no one ever said or asked themself if was french or not…

Posted from  France

Hey Thierry,

Explain this to me…Guadaloupe is part of France correct? Why is there a Guadaloupe football team playing in the Gold Cup at the moment..They come on the field waving the colours of France and even sing the French national anthem..This seems a little unfair because if they are part of France they shouldn’t be able to play in a North American football tournament. Another question..If a player plays for Guadaloupe can this player still play for Les Bleus..

I think other countries should attact some foriegn talent and make them citizens…level the playing field a little. The pool of football players France has to chose from is sick. It shocks me that they haven’t done better than 1 world cup.

Posted from  Canada

My understanding is that Guadaloupe is not recognized as a country by FIFA, so they’re not eligible to play in tournaments like World Cup, but can play in tournaments like Gold Cup.

My guess is that a Guadaloupe player could play for France, similar to Frederic Piquionne playing for both Martinique and France.

Posted from  United States

Thanks for clearing that up Laurie.

Posted from  Canada

blah–

“Why is there a Guadaloupe football team playing in the Gold Cup at the moment”

Blame that on the organizers of the tournament, not France. If Guadeloupe can qualify, why can’t Puerto Rico, since it’s a possession of the USA?

“I think other countries should attact some foriegn talent and make them citizens…”

And which country has done this? Certainly not France. You’re one of those ignorant people who believe that France’s players were all playing elsewhere and that France came swooping in and stole them.

Almost all the players on the French squad were born in France. Those who were not (and they are in the minority) emigrated to France as toddlers or as very young children (ages 4, 5, 8, etc.). France didn’t “attract” them as players because they were still babies when they emigrated.

They have never played anywhere else except in France. It is France where they were raised, educated, trained, nurtured. Vieira was born in Senegal but he knows little of the native language there and has spent nearly all his life in France. France did not “grant” them citizenship, they earned it by being born and raised there.

“It shocks me that they haven’t done better than 1 world cup.”

And it doesn’t shock me that there are lots of people in the world who take pleasure in demonstrating to everyone that they absolutely nothing.

I know you’re not interested in the facts because they disprove all your petty little prejudices, but here is some basic info on non-white French players:

Eric Abidal, born in Lyon
William Gallas – born in Asnieres, France
Mikael Silvestre – born in Chambray-Les-Tours, France
Pascal Chimbonda, born in Guadelupe, moved to France at the age of 4
Patrick Vieira, born in Senegal, moved to France at the age of 8
Claude Makelele, born in Zaire, moved to France at the age of 4
Florent Malouda, born in French Guiana, moved to France at the age of 10
Vikash Dhorasoo, born in Le Havre, France
Alou Diarra, born in Villepinte, France
Sidney Govou, born in Le Puy-en-Velay, France
Sylvain Wiltord, born in Neuilly-sur-Marne, France
Thierry Henry, born in Paris
Louis Saha, born in Paris
David Trezeguet, born in Rouen, France
Jean-Alain Boumsong, born in Cameroon, moved to France at the age of 12
Lilian Thuram, born in Guadeloupe, moved to France at the age of 9
Marcel Desailly, born in Ghana, moved to France at the age of 4

Thuram’s words to Le Pen’s followers: “We are all Frenchmen. We are proud to represent this country.”

Boumsong on his French nationality: “France is my adopted country. This is the country of human rights, equality, brotherhood. I feel at home in France as in Cameroon.”

Other well-known non-white French players:

Sylvain Distin - born in Bagnolet, France
Nicolas Anelka - born in Paris
Djibril Cisse - born in Arles, France

I have concentrated on the black players only because the ONLY reason people like Blah make an issue out of all this is precisely because he sees black faces on the French squad. To him, a black face automatically means “foreigner.” To him, it is impossible for a black man to be French. It doesn’t matter that the person was born in France. By this logic, I am not an American because I emigrated from Brazil at the age of 4.

Skillz, I accused you of racism because you seem to make an issue out of something that should not be an issue. You asked how many French players were actually born in France. I argue that the only reason that you and others even ask that question is because you see black faces on the French squad. If all the players on the squad had white faces and were all born outside of France, you would not ask this question.

It is the sight of black Frenchmen that makes this subject a topic of discussion.

My admiration and respect goes to the majority of French men and women who have no trouble embracing their national squad as authentic Frenchmen.

All the racists inside and outside France who deny the national squad their national identity should be ashamed of themselves.

Posted from  United States

Again I’ll say this…. Your terminolgy troubles me very much. The way in which you gereralize such things as race and repeatedly use the term ‘black faces’ and ‘white faces’ to refer to, and segregate, two continents, with huge and diverse populations like Europe and Africa offends me and I think it is completely inapropriate. But maybe you’re into segregation. You’ve once again accused someone of being racist. The matter between Blah and Laurie was delt with in a friendly and proffesional way with no indication of either saying anything racist. The question was whether Guadeloupean palyers can play for france because they are not recognized by FIFA. Your narrowmindedness and ignorance has no place on this team France blog. The quickness to attack and label people, as we’ve seen in the previos post, can result in false accusations. We must respect ALL citezens of the world. Regardless of race, religion, or ethnicity and stomp out the kind of ignorance and intolerance from the previous post.

Thank You

Skillz

Posted from  Canada

Skillz, Sandra is passionate and protective about “our” French guys, as am I. Mentioning anything race-related on this blog always brings out genuine racists — people who think the team should be white — which raises both her hackles and mine. When people ask things like, “Are there French people on the France team?” it is almost always a question of race. In your case I believe the question is more nuanced.

I might have also dismissed you as racist if it had not been for your previous comment, “Well I’ve lived in the south of France and if French society could be more like French Football then everybody in France would be treated better and not just treated well because they help them win at sports.”

That shows a more complex reason for your questions and comments. Why don’t you explain where you’re coming from so we can all understand?

Posted from  United States

Sandrahn,
I wish i will marry you.

Blah,
Guadeloupe and Martinique teams are a recent stuff (end of 1970’s). I ignored the existence of the gold cup (created in 1991)before your intervention, sorry. After researchs, these teams were born by the wish of caribbeans teams like Trinité and Tobago and nations like Canada and USA in order to have adversaries to play football… oups soccer. I presume these two magnifical continental states that are Usa and Canada were boring themselves by beeing the two only nations playing the soccer cup of Nothern America. Beyond the famous English principle all which can annoy France we will enjoy it, they push all the carribean island to create teams. Against France who didn’t seen with a good eye the creation of a “national team” of two of his departements but finally surrendered. So if i unterstood, you thought it is totally unfair that french paid a guadeloupe and martinique team in order to allow americans and canadians to have opponents in their great competiton, and to be insulted by canadians fans who don’t see that the more they play against different teams the more they will progress. Well, we don’t see the match in France, could you tell me what happened, i just know the old french glory angloma 45 years old play. Thanks.

Posted from  France

Sorry for asking a legitimate question..I received my answer from Laurie thank you very much…I really don’t care for your views on racism and when it comes to the French National Team I admit I am ignorant..I don’t get it and that’s why I wanted clarification. LIGHTEN UP..You guys should find hobbies real fast…YOU’RE PATHETIC!!!!

Posted from  Canada

“I have concentrated on the black players only because the ONLY reason people like Blah make an issue out of all this is precisely because he sees black faces on the French squad. To him, a black face automatically means “foreigner.” To him, it is impossible for a black man to be French. It doesn’t matter that the person was born in France. By this logic, I am not an American because I emigrated from Brazil at the age of 4.”

HOW DARE YOU..Where do you come off saying something like that..It’s amazing how people like you twist words around to make people out to be biggots…I work everyday with people of differant ethnic origins, colour, race and creed and I don’t care about the differences because I consider them my friends and I would do anything for them. You have crossed the line with your comments..Maybe you should think before you respond.

Posted from  Canada

Thierry,

Gaudaloupe was actually quite impressive. They are now in the semi-finals. I believe they are playing Mexico. I wouldn’t be surprised to see some of these players getting called up to the FNT.

Posted from  Canada

Laurie: ” I might have also dismissed you as racist if it had not been for your previous comment, “Well I’ve lived in the south of France and if French society could be more like French Football then everybody in France would be treated better and not just treated well because they help them win at sports.”

Interesting. I too am confused by skillz’ comments - he says things which are passionately anti-racist, good for him. But then he comes out with stuff that immediately sounds like the stuff coming out of Le Pen’s mouth. So I don’t know.

Blah, your outrage doesn’t convince me. You come out with stuff that delegitimizes the authenticity of the French squad as being “truly French” — and then hide behind some moral outrage.

I’ll say it again: this would not be a topic of discussion if the entire French squad were white, period. If Vieira, Thuram, et al. were all white (and emigrants from caucasian countries), people would just blithely assume they’re French, no questions.

Thierry, you made me giggle!

I know I come on strong on this topic and it comes up again and again and again and again. No national squad on the entire planet gets the type (and quantity) of abuse that the French squad does. They are constantly accused of being not true Frenchmen, they are constantly forced to defend their identity as Frenchmen–both inside and outside France.

People the world over repeat the same despicable lie: the French football squad is a fake French team, they’re all foreigners; France “plunders” Africa for their national squad; there are no authentic French football players.

This is more than just flat out inaccurate. It is disgusting. It is morally reprehensible. And the ONLY reason the accusation exists is because of the skin color of some of the French players, that’s it. It’s an accusation that should be resisted for the loathsome little piece of ignorance that it is every time that some idiot parrots it.

I’m sorry, folks, for being so vehement about this. And my sincere thanks to Laurie and the rest for their tolerance of my passion on this.

Posted from  United States

Excuse me, but do you realize how big Europe and Africa are. ‘white faces’ and ‘black faces’ This is insane. Do you know how diiferent a Lithuanian is from a Spaniard. Or how diiferent an Irish person is from a Russian. Or how different a Greek person is from a Norwegian. Or how diiferent the culture in Ethiopia is from Cote D’IVoire(Named after the slaughter of thousands of Elephants for their Ivory tusks by capitalist colonialists) Thank god they’ve achieved independence from their tyranical occupiers. Or how different a Kenyan is from a South African. Or how diiferent a Jamaican is from a Tanzanaen. But I guess you just see people as either a ‘black face’ or a ‘white face’. SANDRAHN, this is the essence of RACISM. Especially when you say no one would notice if the ‘white faces’, as you say, came from another country in Europe. What you’re saying is that everyone from Europe is the same just because they have ‘white face’ regardless of the fact that even within one country in Europe you can find so many different regions and cultures. For example in France. I think even Laurrie would agree with me that a Corsican or an Alsacian or someone from Brittany feel very proud of their unique heritage and have a close connection to their region. But to you they’re just another ‘white face’ and no one can tell the difference between them. If all the players on France had Russian or Serbian last names, I think people would notice that, regardless of their opinions. So stop trying to make this an issue of race and try to wave this flag of tolerance by calling everyone racist. Because you’ve cleary demonstrated to everyone how RACIST you are Sandrahn. If it was up to Sandrahn it wouldnt be World Cup it would be Race Cup. This is the kind of one dimensional ‘George Bush’ or ’sarkozy’ attitude that breeds so much ignorance today. And I think, Sandrahn, that you should work on your issues with racism and look at people for WHO they are, not What they are.

Posted from  Canada

Well, tell me skillz what made you said”I was just wondering, does anyone know which players on team france were actually born in france?”? Because Lillian Thuram, William Gallas, Thierry Henry,…are french names, so what made you answered that, Skillz? What made you thought there were players who necessary weren’t born in France?

Posted from  France

I tell you exactly why Thierry…. A while back, when Le Pen was still a threat to human rights in France, I was watching a program on TV5 about him. (We get that channel here with basic cable because of the whole bilingualism thing.) It was a documentary about the growing resentment towards immigrants, specifically from Africa, amongst the French population. Le Pen had made reference to the the national team having too many immigrants playing for them and it became a stepping stone in his election bid for his followers. This was followed by a satirical cartoon which depicts little Barthez, with his short shorts on and a confused smile, completely alone, and under a banner that says Team France under Le Pen’s rule.
It was this documentary about the rise in extremism and French Nationalism on France’s national television station that led me to ask that question in which it seems you’ve twisted around and are attempting to find something that isnt there. Plus, Someone posted a list that clearly shows over one third of players were born outside of France to clear it for all of us. There is no need for cheap shots and sneaky tactics Thierry. I execpt your apology and I’m glad you came away with this a little bit more informed.

Always glad to help,

Skillz

Posted from  Canada

I’ve enjoyed reading the dialogue above. It’s an interesting topic with many points of view. Well I actually enjoyed reading the debate until sandrahn starting calling everyone a racist. I like Team France but I feel alot of the fans have something to be desired for. Being a French fan I am faced with these same statements regarding Les Bleus and I just ignore them. I really don’t think people should get so emotional over harmless words, it’s just a game after all and people are entitled to their opinion (even if they are misinformed) and we should respect other people’s opinions. Well enough said I bid you all a fond farewell.

Posted from  Canada